Reeder Custom Guns - .38-40 HEY HUEY

EVERYONE KNOWS STARLINE BRASS IS STRONGER. I JUST WEIGHED STARLINE AND WW BRASS--THE LATTER AVERAGES 4 GRAINS MORE IN WEIGHT. WEIRD.

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In 38-40 WCF. I do have some Starline that now has been loaded 15+ times. I'm talking hot loads to boot.

In my Reeder Blackhawk 38-40 6.5" I'm shooting a 200 grn 14-1600 fps. In the Carbine up to 1850 fps!!!

I do want to add that not one single round has given a hint of setback.

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I measure neck wall thickness at .0065-007" and that's pretty thin.

Haven't exactly been gentle on them. I do realize the tight custom chambers matter in case life. Gary's reamer and Lee Dies match so closely I just touch the neck with sizing wax before sizing.

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500 rounds of new Starline 44 Special brass as we shoot o much of it and we leave each cylinder we build full of the fired brass for the customer. Anyway last night I loaded 50 rounds of 44 Spl on one of my Dillon presses and instead of it taking me 15 minutes it took me 2 hours. I had 10 rounds of older brass from another company and loaded them with no problem, as quick as I could work the handle.When I started loading the Starline brass when the expander/powder drop went down into the brass it took me standing up with both hands to pull the expander ball out of the new brass. I don't know if it was just rough or undersized. A couple of times I really thought I was going to break the linkage on the Dillon just trying to get the expander ball out. I stopped and took the expander ball out and polished it on one of my polishing wheels but got the same thing. By the time I got 50 rounds loaded I was ready to call it a day. I don't what the deal is and if I hadn't used that press for loading several thousands of rounds of 44 Special I would chalk it up to a problem with the press but it wasn't the press. It was the brass. What exactly I don't know but there is something wrong with it.

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No doubt a different batch though. Maybe it'll be easier the second time? Let us know...

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unless they are not.

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You can build two just alike, same barrel stock, reamer, etc and they may well prefer different bullets and loads. In fact, I'd almost bet they would.

Batches of brass, primer, bullets, powder, etc always vary.

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BOTH BARRELS FROM THE SAME STOCK. EVERYTHING THE SAME BUT ONE WOULD SHOOT GREAT THE OTHER ONE WOULD NOT.

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and me each a barrel for our Contenders. All the same day, same reamer, 2 from the same barrel blank the 3rd from a different. Barrel blank made by the same company. When loading once fired ammo, none of the 3 will interchange ammo. The loaded rounds will almost chamber in the other guns but not quite. I had to use Magic Markers to color the base of each round different colors so we could keep them separated.

A couple of years before that Kase and Colleen were both into combat shooting. We built 2 identical 38 Supers, both on Springfield Armory guns, same barrel companies, same everything, but again the ammo shot in one would not chamber in the other when reloaded. And all ammo was loaded on the same Dillon 450 press, and all at the same sitting.

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- No text -

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and will reload that brass this weekend. If that doesn't help, I will try Todd's annealing idea from the post above next.

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I assumed it was due to thicker case walls than the expander was designed for?

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hurt brass.
In the case of the 38 WCF, I believe but cannot prove the following.
Due to the brass being so thin, when loaded to modern chamber pressures, that those pressures will actually work harden the brass completely through in the case mouth/neck area within the few firings noted above.

Annealing then brought these cases back to "life", making life so much easier.

Let me know if this works for the 44 Spl brass. I'd be curious to know what you found.

Thanks
T

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The Winchester brass in the 38 WCF is far superior to the Starline. ( in my opinion based on the following experience ) The difference in weight is right around the primer pocket.
Having John Linebaugh's #2 38 WCF, I've done extensive shooting with it. Peak loads in the Winchester brass will generally open the primer pockets of the Starline. (no they are not for the faint of heart, nor is any disrespect meant to Gary by mentioning John Linebaugh here) Gary's guns are fine pieces and will run with any of the loads I've used, at the owners own discretion and Gary's recommendation.

So, Starline WCF brass is kept with what I consider +P loadings, but not "Linebaugh Hi-speed" loadings. ( My designation )

25.0 Grains of H4198 and a 285 grain bullet in the Win Cases will go 1250 in the 38 WCF from a 6.5" revolver. It takes about 1-2 grains more for the same velocity in Starline brass.

Starline is great brass and is my preferred brass for just about any handgun round, except for the 38 WCF with "MAXIMUM" loads.

When hitting that thin brass with snotty loads such as I've done, I find it best to anneal the cases about every five firings to bring the life back to the cases letting them spring back and release from the chamber walls. They work well until the 5th or 6th firing then they loose their elasticity. A quick anneal job restores their malleability and life.

With the Hornady 180 XTP (canalure) , I have found very little velocity gain from 29.0 grains to 32.0 grains in the revolver, as I believe the bullet is outrunning the pressure curve of the powder. 29.0 produces 1750 fps with a 200 grain hard cast gas check bullet in the 6.5" revolver and 2150 from a 10" G2 Contender.

The biggest determent to the 38 WCF is the ultra thin brass. Making reloading and bullet retention in revolvers difficult with maximum performance loads.
I believe Gary's 401 GNR will be an improvement from the handloading standpoint for those who wish to make life far easier with regards to brass. It should duplicate the 38 WCF with any usable +P loadings for the hand loader.

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Using the same cylinder blank as my Reeder Blackhawk 454 Casull.

I've only loaded the 200s to 1600 fps using H110. But, I'm really preferring the GT HP Bullets at 1400 fps using 2400 Powder.

But, this gun is strong!!!

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capacity to get right up there and benefits from the super strong and resilient .44 Magnum brass. It is remarkable what the old war horse .38-40 can do given a strong gun. For playing with the dark side the .401 GNR affords a more livable platform and it's 6-shot is suited to it's power level on the std. BH chassis. I guess that's why he made it. With a Lee .401 sizer you have a much wider assortment of projectiles via converting .41 cal. bullets to 10mm. BTW the 170 gr. Serria makes a totally BITCHIN' 10mm Auto bullet!

I figure the .401 GNR on the .44 as the little brother to the .410 GNR on the .454. It's getting right up there.

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JT. I've never had any factory loads for the 38 WCF so I didn't notice crimped primers. When I received the gun, I was told to "run it and don't be afraid to, providing you give me the data" (JL)
I shot 280 grain bullets over 25.0 grains of VV110 for 1649 fps from the revolver. 30 grains of 1680 at 1580 fps from the 6.5" revolver. Both loads had resistance turning the cylinder, the result of a slightly cupped primer that hung up on the firing pin.
The cylinder was easily turned by hand and the cases extracted no harder than some 44 mag loads I inherited from my father.
Incidentally, the primers in the WW cases were still tight and have been reloaded for many more times.

To Huey. The 5 shot build that Gary did for you should be bull strong. The 38 WCF will do all you ask of it and more. At some point, you will find where the trail ends. The WCF will continually surprise you.

WB, the 401 should be a great round. What the WCF does with 180-200 grain bullets is that it shoot fast and (flatter in revolver speak) and is very shootable, ie it shoots easily with less perceived reoil. (seemingly less than the 44 mag) The only thing that will be annoying, when running these types of loads, the bloody thing is ear-piercing loud!!!!

All the best folks.

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HANDS ARE WAY PAST SHOOTING ANY OF THE LOADS YOU MENTION. IT MAKES SENSE THE WW BRASS HAS A STROGER HEAD AS I NOTICED SWITCHING TO STARLINE .32, .38, AND .44 WCF BRASS ELIMINATED LOOSING CASES WITH CRUSHED NECKS. HAVE YOU NOTICED PRIMERS IN FACTORY WW .38-40s ARE CRIMPED IN?

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.38-40 HEY HUEY

That is weird, but no first hand experience with W-W Brass..

Starline metallurgy has got to be great...

something a bit different. Colleen ordered me

That's interesting. I load lots of it without problems. But

The thing about reloading is that things are always the same

It's like we all know about guns...

HAMILTON DID DO THAT WITH

when we developed the 7 GNR, I built Kase, Colleen

I know if brass is too clean it seems to grip more?

I will be shooting some of it in the next day or so

I have that problem with 327 brass (most of it starline).

I've never found annealing to

Mr. Taffin

Gary built me a 5-Shot 38-40 Blackhawk....

The .401 (Huey has one too) has enough

JT, Huey and WB

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO. MY