Learn me about Seville revolvers!
JB
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 09:57 (1808 days ago)
Come across one that I'm guessing a six inch barrel in 44 magnum. Heavy beast. Grip felt odd-first thought was love child of a Glock 21 and a Ruger Bisley. $1200
JB .. there is a lot of info on the internet.
Jim Taylor
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 11:00 (1808 days ago) @ JB
More than I would want to type here.
![[image]](images/uploaded/20210829180053612bcb55896e9.gif)
Cursed pdf
JB
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 11:25 (1808 days ago) @ Jim Taylor
The article I'd really like to read looks to be available only as a pdf file, which my phone cannot open(it's all I have, and the memory is nearly maxed out).
FROM JOHN TAFFIN'S BOOK OF THE .44
JT
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 11:04 (1808 days ago) @ JB
Chapter 34: Some Other .44 Magnum Sixguns
Long-range silhouetting had a great effect on revolvers in the 1970s and 1980s. Silhouetting was the number one game and manufacturers such as Ruger, Dan Wesson, Smith & Wesson, and Freedom Arms all produced revolvers for shooting long-range. Ruger and Dan Wesson vied for the number one spot early, Smith & Wesson was a case of too little too late, and once Freedom Arms revolvers began to appear on the firing line they became a runaway first choice with the top shooters.
The Ruger Super Blackhawk was not the only .44 Magnum single action in those early days as there were also .44 single action sixguns from United Sporting Arms, United States Arms, A.I.G./Mossberg, and Interarms. Everything really began in 1972 with Sig Himmelmann’s founding of United States Arms and designing the basic revolver. United Sporting Arms and United States Arms were originally one company, however there was a split with the former producing the Seville and El Dorado and the latter the Abilene. All of my early .44 experience with the Abilene/El Dorado/Seville line of single action .44 Magnums was confined to the Abilene, however I did have one of the USA .375s from the Post Falls operation and it was a first class sixgun in every way. Sometime around 1980 A.I.G., a division of Mossberg, began producing the Abilene from parts on hand. As expected once the parts ran out the Abilene disappeared.
In early 1981 I received three test guns from A.I.G. The first example was a 7-1/2” .44 Magnum beautifully blued and packed in a box with a heavy wooden lid. I immediately disassembled this Abilene, cleaned all the interior parts, re-oiled everything with Tri-Flon, and when it was reassembled it had a smooth action with a four pound trigger pull. Basically the Abilene was an exceptionally good-looking revolver with a blue finish equal to or better than anything then being produced. The wood to metal fit of the grips was excellent, the hammer spur was wide and easy to reach making for easy cocking, and the trigger was wide and smooth. One distraction was the front sight, which was not squared off on the back like the Ruger Blackhawk or the Colt New Frontier; so aesthetically speaking, it did not blend into the barrel in an eye pleasing fashion.
Instead of the spring-loaded base pin latch found on most single actions, the Abilene went back to the 1870s and used the black powder Colt-style retainer with a screw entering from the front of the frame to secure the base pin. Sometimes with heavy loads the spring-loaded latch would allow the base pin to move forward even to the point of leaving the sixgun; if this screw from the front of the frame was kept tight this could not happen on an Abilene.
The action on the Abilene was traditional with no transfer bar and a half cock notch for loading and unloading. Although they did not have a transfer bar it did have an anvil mounted in the hammer, which contacted the firing pin. I always carried the Abilene with only five rounds and an empty chamber under the hammer. This Abilene proved to have two problems, the hand was too short to rotate the cylinder around completely so it would not lock up; also the front sight was not properly silver soldered. After about 50 rounds of .44 Magnum loads, the front sight started to peel away from the barrel so it was sent back to A.I.G. and repaired properly and in a very short time. When it came back it was perfect and there were no further problems.
While that first Abilene was on its way back to A.I.G. two more test Abilenes showed up. One was basically the twin to the first Abilene, however it was finished in a bead blasted nickel looking much like stainless-steel. Along with it came a blued 4-5/8” Packin’ Pistol with a heavy bull barrel and this one proved to be one of the best looking, best balanced .44 Magnums I had ever encountered up to that point and the heavy bull barrel did a lot to help dampen felt recoil. The barrels on the two 7-1/2” sixguns had a tapered shape of .794” to .714” back to front, while the short-barreled .44 was a straight .845” all the way. The short-barreled .44 proved to be extremely accurate and I made 15 straight hits on a swinging ram target at 200 meters using three different loads and the same sight setting.
When I tried to cock the nickel-plated .44 the cylinder bolt would not release. It was dismantled and the spring plunger on the hammer, which releases the bolt, was not functioning. I worked it up-and-down manually several times to smooth out the rough spots, greased it, and put it back together. After that it worked perfectly and the cylinder lock up was as tight as possible with no end shake or side-to-side movement. After 25 rounds or so the 4-5/8” Abilene also exhibited a silver solder problem as the stud on the barrel which accepted the ejector rod housing screw worked loose and the ejector housing came off. This was also returned to A.I.G. and was back in a couple weeks again in perfect shape. No further problems where encountered with any of these Abilenes.
Several months later a fourth .44 Magnum Abilene arrived in a 10-1/2” long-range silhouette model and this one was really set up right. It was finished in a bright blue reminiscent of the Smith & Wessons of the 1950s, the action was very smooth, it cocked very easily, the trigger pull was just over three pounds, and the trigger was wide and smooth. As on the 4-5/8” Abilene this one also had a full .845” diameter bull barrel, however instead of being totally round the top was flattened off and serrated. Sights were near perfect with an Eliason rear sight matched up with a Patridge front sight.
My first loads through this long barreled Abilene where the standard Keith .44 Magnum load. On the 23rd shot I felt something hit the top of my hat; it was the ejector rod assembly and for the third time poor silver soldering proved to be the culprit. This gun was then returned and again came back repaired and has been functioning ever since. On my son’s 21st birthday in 1984 he had the choice of several .44 Magnums. By then the 10-1/2” Abilene wore genuine stag stocks provided by A.I.G. and this .44 was his first choice. He still has that sixgun more than 30 years later.
With the split in the partnership in 1977 United Sporting Arms began producing the Seville. Jeff Munnell is the reigning expert on these revolvers and I quote the following from him which is just a small portion of that which appears yearly in the Standard Catalog of Firearms. “By late in that year, this company had accomplished several firearms firsts with production of the stainless steel El Dorado revolver. This was the first use of 17-4 PH stainless for a revolver frame, pre-dating Freedom Arms, and was made at a time when Sturm Ruger engineering department was sending lengthy letters explaining why stainless steel was totally unsuitable for guns chambered for the .44 Magnum cartridge. It would be years until the rest of the firearms industry caught up to this fledgling company.
In 1979, one of the remaining partners established a second production facility in Tombstone, Arizona, under the name of United Sporting Arms of Arizona, Inc. Guns made in this plant still utilized frames made in New York, and therefore bore the Hauppauge, N.Y. frame inscription. However, Tombstone-built guns will contain the letter “T” as a suffix to the serial number. In Tombstone, the Silver Seville was born, having a highly polished stainless grip frame on an otherwise blued gun. This is a striking combination, has become quite popular on custom guns as well as some limited production runs from other makers. (Neither the guns themselves, nor the official company records reflect this designation, only the boxes for the guns do.)… Later in 1979, the Arizona facility was relocated to the town of Bisbee, Arizona. Less Than 200 guns were made with the Bisbee address….and late 1979, the company moved once again, this time to Tucson, Arizona. By now, the split from the New York concern was completed legally as well as physically, new guns were in blue and stainless, but all were called Sevilles.”
After this USA concentrated on the silhouette market with guns chambered in .357 SuperMag, .375 USA, and even .454 Casull. In 1985 the company moved to Post Falls Idaho however very few guns were made there and in the meantime the New York-based El Dorado Arms moved to North Carolina. Confusing isn’t it? Munnell says only somewhere between 6,000 and 7,000 were produced by all of the United Sporting Arms/El Dorado Arms companies. Again quoting Jeff Munnell: “Quality, except for the very few noted instances, was always very high, and an informal United Sporting Arms slogan was that a Seville was what a Super Blackhawk could be if Ruger had a custom shop. Given the truth of this statement, it must be admitted that an El Dorado Arms gun was what a custom Seville could have been.”
These single action revolvers were produced in several calibers from .22 on up. For our focus they were not only produced in .44 Magnum but also in .44-40, with 60 being offered as the Tombstone Commemorative with a blued frame and the balance of the guns stainless steel, and even .44 Special. Munnell also shares the fact at least prototypes were produced in .44 Super Magnum before the .445 SuperMag arrived from Dan Wesson.
Both books arrived yesterday
JB
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 11:26 (1808 days ago) @ JT
Of course, I opened "The Book of the 45" first...
SEVILLE
JT
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 12:43 (1807 days ago) @ JB
Good looking 44 I assume!
Derek
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 18:05 (1807 days ago) @ JT
- No text -
Lee Martin's singleactions.com
Greg M.
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 17:04 (1807 days ago) @ JB
is probably as comprehensive a resource on Sevilles as you are likely to find.
https://singleactions.com/UnitedSportingArms.html
Can't tell you if $1200 is a good price or not without more info. Five years ago I would have said "too high" but they have been going up precipitously. I got a mint 4-5/8" .41 Mag for around $900 and a less than mint 3-1/2" .45 Colt for $400-something back in '17. I'd easily add $200-ish to those prices now.
thanks, but it's a pdf file
JB
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 18:34 (1807 days ago) @ Greg M.
- No text -
You have Abobe on your phone?
Bucky
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 19:11 (1807 days ago) @ JB
- No text -
nope
JB
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 23:49 (1807 days ago) @ Bucky
- No text -
Good pics and info! Very Blackhawk looking to.
Derek
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 19:12 (1807 days ago) @ JB
- No text -
an old friend of mine who was the head of the custom
gary reeder
[subject]
Sunday, August 29, 2021, 21:22 (1807 days ago) @ JB
dies department at Hornady was a big collector and talked about them all the time. His main problem was the lack of parts. He has several of the various models and a few lacked good parts so he was always looking for them. The guns were excellent guns and smoother than the Ruger Super Blackhawk but at the time I was familiar with them they were more expensive than the Ruger so that slowed down the sale of them. If you want it as a collector piece then jump on it but in my humble opinion the $1200 price is considerably high. Especially with few parts available should you need them.
![[image]](images/uploaded/20210829194250612be33a8727d.jpg)