Hard Cast or Punch Bullet

TM
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 09:55 (1738 days ago)

One of my sons and I are going fly fishing in Montana next summer. I am not and will not become paranoid about bears as many are, just want to be prepared. From a .44 magnum which bullet would be better, a hard cast or a Punch bullet?

having hunted Alaska a couple of times with some of the guys

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 11:27 (1737 days ago) @ TM

on here I have seen where the hard cast fail miserably on large bears. In fact George Faerber, our guide and one of the most experienced bear guides up there has banned the hard cast bullets in his camps.
It seems when the bullet hits the bear it pushes a column of air in front of it, which tends to push the vital organs aside, not doing much damage to the internals before exiting on the off side. I have personally shot one big bear twice with the 510 GNR and the heavy hard cast bullet and both bullets went thru the bear from 2 hits just behind the shoulder on each side exiting in front of the hind quarters on the off side. He had 4 large 50 caliber holes in him and he just ran off and I had to go in the alders after him. When we skinned and gutted him the vital organs were for the most part undamaged even though the 2 bullets had gone right thru them. He died from massive blood loss.
Anyway, George said he had had more than one bear to do the same after being hit with a hard cast bullet. This doesn't mean all hard cast are bad, just that he had had more than one bear run off after being hit in the right spot with one. And there were 2 of them on our hunt to do that. So I would go with either a Punch bullet or a Hornady 265 grain jacketed soft point. Whichever your 44 shoots the best.

HARD TO BEAT THE 265 HORNADY

JT
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 11:36 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

- No text -

amen. That has been my favorite 44 mag bullet for

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 11:50 (1737 days ago) @ JT

large game for many years.

I ALSO FOUND IT TO BE

JT
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 13:40 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

SUPERB ACCURATE FOR SILHOUETTING. I think it was originally designed for the .444 Marlin, however it also turned out to be a top choice for the .44 Magnum.

I started using it in my 44 Auto Mags and like you said it

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 13:51 (1737 days ago) @ JT

was extremely accurate. I have taken Bison and quite a few large bodied animals with that bullet.

Punch bullet out of production

Alcorn
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 19:50 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

So is Hornady 265 gr, FP. Have had great success with Hornady 265gr FP.

just before our lion hunt I got a box of the 265

gary reeder
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 20:50 (1737 days ago) @ Alcorn

grain 44 mag Hornady bullets. They have changed the looks of the bullet, adding a second cannelure and changing the looks of it. Not sure if it is a stable number in their 44 mag line up but it was at our distributor so who knows.

Punch Bullets

Kelye
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 20:12 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

I don't think Mike Rintoul at Cast Performance/Grizzly Cartridge is making them anymore.

I actually used "Punch Bullet" as an

TM
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 14:34 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

example. Are they even still available from Grizzly Cartridge, I didn't see them on the website. Curious.

I'm trying to figure out...

AmBraCol
[subject]
Thursday, November 04, 2021, 16:40 (1737 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

how the punch bullet would act differently from a hard cast in the same application. I can see how a soft point would cause more disruption, but don't understand how the punch bullet would differ from the hard cast as they are both designed to NOT upset and to drive through for full penetration.

Thanks for the first hand info on the hardcast on big bears. I've read a lot of armchair hunters theorizing on how that would be the best choice.

The worst thing I saw with hardcast bullets

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Friday, November 05, 2021, 10:49 (1737 days ago) @ AmBraCol

were bullets that were too brittle and broke up on heavy bones. Years ago I had a guy send me photos of that happening to him on big game in Africa. He was using commercially cast bullets that turned out to be brittle.

The "failures" I've experienced with cast bullets is the punching of a caliber-size hole all the way through that often is not as quick a stopper as a bullet that expands some as well as punching extremely deep.

I've knocked a .45 caliber hole through both shoulders of an Arizona deer, getting both lungs and the top of the heart in the process .. and had the deer run 50 yards or so before falling down. It was "dead" at the shot, but the brain kept functioning long enough for it to make a short hard run.

I am a firm believer that if you can surprise the game with the shot ... that is, the animal was not aware of you before you shot .. they usually drop much quicker.

I will not say "always" and probably should use "much of the time" instead of "usually" in that sentence.

take my comments about the hard cast bullets with a

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Friday, November 05, 2021, 11:48 (1736 days ago) @ Jim Taylor

grain of salt as I am not bad mouthing all hard cast bullets at all. Just mentioning that they failed on one of our Alaska hunts twice on that hunt on 2 different bears. And the guide's banning of them in his bear camps due to that situation cropping up several times. Your experiences might be totally opposite of that.

I did not take it you were bad-mouthing them...

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Friday, November 05, 2021, 13:11 (1736 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Reporting on how things worked or not is just that .. "This is how it worked for me."

Shooting living breathing mammals for as many years as some of us have, we have seen some strange things happen.

I would rather hear an honest report from someone "Doing It" in the field than from someone who shoots jello and then tells you how good it is.

Years ago a certain ammo company made "THE ULTIMATE MAN-STOPPER" which was a hollow tube. Supposed to be the last word in self defense ammo.

They sent me some to test and instead of shooting targets and jello I went out and shot dogs and coyotes. It did not work worth crap.

I called them up asked them if they had tried it on living breathing creatures and they said no they had not. I told them they were gonna get someone killed by marketing it. They were kind and removed me from their mailing and ammo-to-test list.

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