Does it really matter?

Mark Conner
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 14:32 (1371 days ago)

This is a little bit of a continuation on what WB was mentioning on flat nose bullets and the percent of meplat in Jim's post below. And I do it for no other reason than self amusement.

I have not shot many animals at all with handguns, but the few that I have, have all been with cast flat nosed bullets, and they all died pretty fast except for one mule deer doe that was my fault on the bullet placement. I did get her but it took a couple minutes longer than I would have liked.

What this rambling was supposed to do was show the different percent of meplat diameters in a few of the cast bullets that I cast and shoot.

These bullets are all .45 cal. From left to right: Elmer's 454424 with the rounded lube groove. Meplat is .340 for 75%. Next is a Ray Thompson design (I really like this bullet) 452490, .320 for 70%. A LBT LFN at .330 and 73%. Another LBT in a WFN, .370 for 82%. and if you are still reading a RCBS 45-300 SWC, .320 for 70% again.

Accuracy wise they all are good shooters for me, except the RCBS SWC, I just can not make it shoot, and everything I've read says it's a great bullet, I just can't do it.

They all will maintain accuracy as far as you want to shoot except the WFN and it's 82% nose. I get a little past 100 yards then it's any ones guess.

So in all of this, if you stay within about 100 yards any are great. If you want to play way out there, you may want to leave the WFN at home. This is just what I have seen with the little bit that I have done.
[image][image]

I shot heavy WFN's in the Freedom Arms 454

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 14:47 (1371 days ago) @ Mark Conner

and found out that what Elmer wrote 40 years before about wadcutters still held true. The WFN's were 330 gr. if I remember correctly. At 1200/1300 fps they would barely stay in a 30 foot circle at 300 yards. I was shooting at a 5 gallon bucket and with LFN's and the Freedom Arms 300 gr. bullet I could get hits on it now and again and unless I flinched really badly, all shots were close.

I began pushing the WFN's and when I got them up over 1600 fps they kept their accuracy further out. But never as good as the smaller nosed bullets.

Yep, unless pushed really hard

Mark Conner
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 15:01 (1371 days ago) @ Jim Taylor

they just don't hold accuracy. They are a devastating bullet when they get there, it's just getting them there.

I think it was Dustin Linebaugh that said WFN stands for Won't Fly Nowhere.

WFN

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 15:30 (1371 days ago) @ Mark Conner

That's hilarious ... but an accurate description.

I know it sounds like blasphemy but I have no idea

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 15:41 (1371 days ago) @ Mark Conner

what the percentage of meplat my bullets have. Before I go on a hunt I try several bullets and whichever one my gun likes is what I take into the field. When the LBT bullets were "the thing" for shooters to have the WFN caused me a lot of problems. Our chambers are tight and all chambers tend to taper to the front and the WFN bullets were larger than the brass and had to be forced into the chamber in a revolver. Sort of like a heeled bullet. I had lots of calls from customers saying they had to force the bullets into the chamber and in 100% of the time they were the heavier WFN bullets. I told the customer to switch to the LFN and he wouldn't have any more problems. They did and the problem went away. But they still bitched that the LFN was not what Brian Pierce recommended. I asked them if Brian Pierce built the gun and if not forget him and his advice. The gun shot great with the medium weight LFN bullets and that was all that mattered. A few years prior to that I shot my African Savannah buffalo with the prototype of the 410 GNR revolver and the 250 grain LBT bullet I got from Kelly Brost. One shot put the buffalo down and I was a happy camper. Oh and I didn't ask Kelly what the meplat was. He said it was a good 41 caliber bullet and that was all I needed to know. In my revolver they shot great.

On my last Cape Buffalo hunt all my guns had been borrowed in Qatar and I had to use other hunter's guns. I borrowed Michael Mendes' 454 and the 5 bullets he had left. I thanked him and never asked him what the meplat was and so on. I used 2 of them on the Buffalo and he died and that was all I needed to know.

On my African lion hunt last year I had some 510 caliber jacketed soft point bullets I got from one of the hunters at the HHC, I think. Don't really remember where I got them. Someone gave me a box of the 325 grain bullets to try in my 510 GNR. Several years later I dug them out and tried them. They were accurate in my revolver and lions are thin skinned animals and 325 grains at around 1300 fps should ruin the cat's day. I have no idea what the lineage of the bullet was and who it's Mother was but in my 510 GNR the bullet was accurate and that was all I needed to know.

So go ahead and say bad things about me and my blasphemy attitude on lead bullets. I'm a big boy.

DON'T KNOW THE MEPLATS?? HOW

JT
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 16:38 (1371 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?

It was rough at first. Thanks to my old buddy Jack Daniels

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 16:49 (1371 days ago) @ JT

I pulled thru.

Well, as I said in the first paragraph,

Mark Conner
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 17:59 (1371 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

this was for my own amusement. Sure not trying to convince anybody of anything.

FOTBALLS FLY BETTER THAN BASKETBALLS

JT
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 15:11 (1371 days ago) @ Jim Taylor

- No text -

Good one John.

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 15:30 (1371 days ago) @ JT

- No text -

I have to admit I'm usually under 100 yds

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 17:13 (1371 days ago) @ Mark Conner

with my revolvers. I think it is notable that the common meplat for that classic bullet lineup is around 70%, it must prove something. That WFN was never intended to be a long range bullet to begin. It is a close range hammer! The "bore riding" ojive is what was sticking in Gary's tight chambers. My .510 GNR has the same issue at .512". Sized to .510" and it disappeared forever. I also note that RCBS 300 has about the same amount of bore riding side but is longer than the others. Perhaps it is a stability issue. The shorter SWC has much less bullet touching the bore in comparison.

I have shot some revolvers farther at targets but it's been a long time. My 8" Python shot 1.5" groups at 100 yds. but that was using JHP. My FA guns seem to shoot into the same hole IF I can hold them, but that is less than 100 yds. Here in AR where I actually handgun hunt 50 yds. is a looong shot, really! I might be able to get up a tree and see over the thick to shoot 50 yds. but I doubt it unless I cut shooting lanes.

[image]

[image]

If a hunting handgun can shoot 4" at 100 yds. off the bench with whatever bullet I'm using I feel fantastic. My Ruger SRH .429 GNR and .41 GNR Bisley Hunter instantly come to mind. I figure I could stretch that to 6" or so at 150 yds. but it would have to be unusual circumstances. I've never shot a deer or other animal very much past 100 yds. even with a single shot platform. But I'd not be afraid to try much farther using one of those and a tested and proven load. Basically they are rifles with stubby barrels and no stocks from a accuracy standpoint. You know we are hunting after all, not sniping. That is another sport completely.

A boy from Wyoming came to buy a motorcycle from me once (Ducati 900 SS SP). I took him out the next day and we went on little ride in the hills. At every sharp bend he fell way back, then catch up on the straights. I stopped and asked if he was ok. He said "I can't see around the corner, how do you just fly around it, not knowing what is around it?". LOL Boy I never thought of that. Bob Milek and my other heroes of youth took handgun game at 200+ yds. They mostly had to where they lived. Except from rare instances there was little long (0ver 100 yds.) revolver play. Even though they lived in more open territory.

[image]

I've potted at rocks and stuff with a revolver before. Shot a .22 wheelgun over 400 yds. at a rock in the water. About the size of a Toyota, I hit it many times once I figured how to hold, and wait seemingly several seconds for the "whack". I bet I could do it with a gun loaded with about anything, perhaps some ammo easier than others. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, if it does not get in the way of fun.

[image]

Keep your stalks and shooting inside 100 yds. and it will hide lots problems that others may find for you.

I prefer the middle bullet design.

MTM
[subject]
Tuesday, November 01, 2022, 17:30 (1371 days ago) @ Mark Conner

About a 65-70% meplat. I don’t know which ones fly best at long range, ( they are very accurate at 100 and under range) but I think at that range 65-70 % meplat is the best for impact and penetration, while imparting a good level of shock to the animal, and good in line penetration. Those look very close to the Sierras I use in .454 and .500. I’ve had good luck with them.

Lynn

Lynn41
[subject]
Wednesday, November 02, 2022, 10:55 (1370 days ago) @ Mark Conner

Just remember the last word on your hunt is the bullet. It will have the final say so about how this ends.. so some one has to choose wisely
I use nothing but .411 home cast Keith hps in my Bhawks.
but have both wfn and lwn-- they can make huge holes remember you can cast your own soft points from a normal mold.. plus Pc.d bullets can be made to expand well
but a big flat nose (65-80%) does make a big hole

powered by my little forum