Things old are new again, again...
The .400 Legend, you almost forgot it existed, didn't you? Savage is the only maker (other than AR types), I know of, producing rifles for the Winchester cartridge. It's is specifically for the "straight wall case" hunting states. Same as the .350 Legend that has actually felt some popularity, spurred by the ammo shortage during COVID. The shelves were full of this .350 stuff and guys figured they needed a gun to shoot the available round.
Not to be confused with Gary's .400 GNR on the full length .30-30 case. It could be used if you shortened it back to under the state mandated case length restrictions. I think it is too long for some states regulations as is. Like shooting a .38 in a .357 chamber, it should work, I figure. The .30-30 case gets internally thick not too bar back. You might have to inside neck ream. If too thick .30-30 brass gives you fits working with the .400 GNR, Starline makes a thin-wall .38-55 Win. cases that really help. Normal .30-30 brass is around 0.011" at the neck and this .38-55 stuff is 0.008".
Both "new" rounds are nothing more than modernized versions of the 1907 and 1910 Winchester Self-Loading cartridges. The performance gain, if you can call 5% +/- a gain, is more likely the result of accident. But they sure tell it and sell it as something miraculous and new. The antique Winchester rifles were popular and served well from inception to the start of WWII (.401 WSL) and beyond for the .351 WSL.The former was used for arming Ballonist in WWI in France. The .351 was very popular with law enforcement and prison use until they dropped them in 1957. The .401 WSL had an underhanded rold in modern magnum handgun cartridges that aligned with Elmer Keith's earliest exploits. Pop Eimer took the .38-40 Colt and rebored cylinders to a cut down version of the .401 WSL to fit. He filled the case with as much of the then hot powder. Most figure he was likely getting around 1500 fps shooting the 180 - 200 gr. .403" .38-40 lead slugs. The .401 bullets would have been a bit too big for the .403" bore Colt.
![[image]](images/uploaded/202401021552256594313975b96.jpg)
Good news for old rifle fanciers is you can make .351 cases from .350 legend brass by shortening them. Even without the teeny factory round's rim they work fine. For the .401 WSL I have long made rounds from .30-30, .414 SM, and of late 7.62X39, using only 40 S&W or 10mm auto reloading dies. The .351 bullets are sized down to at least .355" (.352" is correct) and the .401 shoots .410" lead bullets fine. However .408" I believe is the correct spec.
![[image]](images/uploaded/2024010215523765943145db19b.jpg)
I want some .400 Legend brass to test for the .401 WSL loading. The main issue other than shortening is the rims are slightly rebated. The parent case I'm told is the 6.8 SPC round. As long as it extracts loaded rounds the old blowback operated Winchester WILL eject it. I look forward for some more fun with the old gun.
An old experimental video of me shooting some .401 WSL I made from .41 Rem. Mag cases. After I lathe the rims to fit. I have to seat the bullets long to feed from the magazine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbzLQIkq1A
I didn't forget about it,
I just never thought about it.
Capacity is close to Gary’s .400 GNR but the rebated rim
Is not good for much of anything except AR type rifles. Bolt guns can snap a extractor over it but single shots will have to have a sprung extractor. Not that it couldn’t be done, ditto for lever actions. But some applications just do better with a rim. The Marlin 336 in .35 Rem is a great rifle but I’m always worried about that hairpin extractor snapped to the bolt head. It’s a wonder it works at all.
It probably will make a good semi-auto round for the 5.56 chassis AR and medium range hunting. Not quite as good as the .444 Marlin but certainly on par with the 1910 Winchester. I guess it uses 6.8 SPC mags? I’m not familiar with that round. I was told it was based loosely on the .30/.35 Rem case modded and necked to .277.
If I see a reasonable AR upper I might try it for fun.
Well, there you go.
I have a 35 Remington and a 444 Marlin. Plus, a lever in 400 GNR and one in 450 GNR. No wonder I didn't think about the 400 Legend.
Speaking of totally useless cartridges a fellow brought
in a box of the new 30 Super and wanted to know what guns was it chambered in. He was of the opinion that the 30 Super Carry was the hot new carry round. The Sportsman's Warehouse, our main competitor a couple of blocks from here, is really pushing this cartridge but apparently they don't have a gun for it.
I have always heard if you tell an moron something enough times he will eventually believe it. And I guess that is true enough, especially after the release of the 350 Legend, the 45 Gap, the 6.8 SPC, the 50 GI, the 400 Cor Bon, and the 30 Super among others.
The 30 Super really makes things a bit foggy by calling it the 30 Super Carry. And no that doesn't mean it is the best cartridge to carry. Far from it. As a for instance the 30 Super Carry is a 100 grain bullet at 1250. A 32 H&R which is for sure not a self defense round but is a 100 grain bullet at 1150 FPS. So for all practical purposes you are carrying an H&R as a self defense cartridge. For self defense a wise person carries a cartridge that will solve your self defense problem. As another for instance a 9mm factory round is a 124 grain bullet at 1400 FPS and some of the specialty 9mm defense loads are in the 1650 FPS range. I always believed in the old saying of "carry the largest cartridge that you can handle well".
I have now and have for many years carried a 45 auto as a carry gun. But if the 45 were outlawed it wouldn't break my heart to go to the 9mm, mainly because the 9mm has come so far along in the last few years that going to the 9mm I am not giving up any power and with a bit less recoil I can get more rounds in the air in a bad situation. But would I ever give up my 45 or even my favorite Browning Hi Power in 9mm and go to the 30 Super Carry? And I would guess you know the answer to that. My son Kase, who builds some great 45 1911s and could carry one of them if he so desired. But he has seen some of the super hot specialty 9mm rounds on the market and he carries a custom Browning Hi Power I gave him for Christmas years ago.
In the pic below the cartridges are the 380, the 30 Super Carry, the 9mm, and the 38 Super.
![[image]](images/uploaded/202401031951286595bac0f405f.jpg)
The 30 Super has a bit more power than the 380 and much less than the 9mm, and way less than the 38 Super. Yet some of the gun writers are really pushing the 30 Super as the cartridge to carry if you are serious about personal defense. One gun writer even went as far as saying a "cartridge that women could handle". I bet that pissed off a lot of women.
Unfortunately, a lot of folks new into guns will believe the crap being posted about the new 30 Super Carry.
Right now there is a whole flock of new cartridges that are each claiming to be the fastest or most flat shooting or best for long range and the perfect cartridge for dangerous game and so on. The 6.5 Creedmoor got all this started. I have had owners of the 6.5 Creedmoor tell me to my face that the 6.5 shot flat to 800 yards. Another told me the 6.5 was the perfect bull elk cartridge, another that the military was going to go with it as their long range sniper cartridge and the BS goes on and on.
More and more folks are getting into guns these days, seemingly more than in the past but it is a shame that they are being led into believing in Santa Klaus, the Easter Bunny, honest Democrats and cartridges like the 30 Super Carry.
And as a disclaimer, let me add, if this pisses off some of those that plan on carrying the 30 Super Carry, I didn't mean it as a slam against you. One of these days we may be over-run by fang toothed rabbits, Killer Prarie Dogs, or gay ankle biting groundhogs and that 30 Super Carry will become the gun to have and you will be my hero and I will wish I had a gun chambered in the 30 Super Carry. Until then, maybe not.