Army’s new pistol.

SPB
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 13:23 (2845 days ago)

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat
A Message from Petco6 hours ago
The U.S. Army gets a new war-ready M17 pistolVideo
Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

“With this weapon, you can change quickly from right hand to left hand. If you are shooting something that is not comfortable on your hand and can't get a comfortable grip, it is not as accurate,” Sgt. 1st Class Andrew Flynn, 101st Division Master Gunner, said earlier this year.

The new handguns are built with an external safety, self-illuminating sights for low-light conditions, an integrated rail for attaching enablers and an Army standard suppressor conversion kit to attach an acoustic/flash suppressor, service developers said.

“It increases target recognition and increases capability with night sights,” Lt. Col. Steven Power, Individual Weapons Product Manager, Soldier Weapons, told reporters earlier this year.

The Army is now acquiring thousands of full-size XM17 and compact XM18 versions of the new 9mm pistol. The XM17 fires 147 grain jacketed hollow point ammunition.

When it comes to fast-evolving tactics now used in close-quarter combat, something with which Army soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now have more than a decade of experience, an ability to maneuver with increased lethality in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, attics or buildings allows soldiers to access life-impacting firepower more effectively - especially in “tight quarters” situations where a longer, larger rifle may not be available for use.

Fast emerging targets and quick-changing circumstances, fundamental to close-quarter combat, naturally require rapid decision making and on-the spot flexibility amid military confrontation. Requirements and technical improvements with the M17 were specifically designed with this in mind, Army developers emphasized.

“This adds a whole new dynamic to close-quarter combat. A standard pistol cannot change grips or allow a soldier to switch from a right-handed shooter to a left-handed shooter. This is a great capability for us to put in play,” Flynn said.

Close quarter combat, while considered indispensable to successful counterinsurgency warfare, is also something of significant relevance to large-scale force-on-force, mechanized combat against a potential near-peer adversary. Urban warfare - from urban combat in WWII to house-to-house fighting in Hue City in Vietnam - is naturally a long-standing component of major war as well.

Power explained that the Army’s M17 acquisition effort unfolded on a massively accelerated timeframe, moving to contract within 10 months.

“We are dual arming the infantry at the position of team leader and above,” Power said.

The fast-tracked acquisition effort, which merged work from the Army Research Lab and the Army’s Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, drew heavily from modeling and simulation to expedite development of the new weapon.

Prospects for the handgun have been well received across DoD; the Navy, Air Force and Marines are also receiving this pistol, according to a report from Military.com.

The Army has been closely coordinating with the Special Operations community regarding training and development of the new handgun, given the consistency with which close-quarter combat is utilized by SOF.

The M17 and M18 pistols are manufactured by Sig Sauer, who earned the $580 million contract to produce the weapons in January of this year.

I didn't think you could use JHP ammuninton in combat.

WB
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 13:44 (2845 days ago) @ SPB

I figure, anytime you are using a "pistol" in combat against possible rifle/carbine adversaries, I'd figure it a disadvantage. In combat, to me, a pistol is to be used until I can get to something more suitable. But what do I know, I'm not tactically trained or minded.

The article seems to paint with a very broadly dramatic brush.

the JHP issue was changed a while back for

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 14:05 (2845 days ago) @ WB

the rifle and handgun, citing a changing issue with the Geneva Convention BS.

And the new Sigs have already experienced several problems that weren't found in the quickie testings. Still lots of questions about how all that went down and among them insinuations of some money being paid under the table to the folks that make the decisions.

I doubt that there's ever a govt contract

Grover Sr
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 14:14 (2845 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Made these days without under the table money trading hands.

that is for sure. The part that bothers me

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 14:36 (2845 days ago) @ Grover Sr

is it is for things for our soldiers safety. If it was for a Jeep or truck, no big deal but scrimping or crooked dealings on an item that might save a soldier's life is not good.

Yup, I consider it treasonous!

Grover Sr
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 14:50 (2845 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

- No text -

But, not new stuff. You can trace that back to the...

Huey
[subject]
Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 15:05 (2845 days ago) @ Grover Sr

Trapdoor Springfield. The Remington Rolling Block was superior in every way. Crooked Government Contacts have been around since...Well, Government.

Ammo

Larry Fry
[subject]
Thursday, November 22, 2018, 16:15 (2844 days ago) @ Huey

The Army uses a 147 grain tungsten cored 9mm in their current loadings. The Geneva Convention has not changed the prohibition against HP etc. We carried .45acp and shotguns loaded with buckshot and flettchettes from 1965 to at least 1988 to the best of my recollection.NO ONE pays any attention to the GC anyway. The Seabees were forced to change to the 9 mm etc in the 80’s but not all battalions complied until late 80’s. It was a matter of when the $’s became available to trade in for the new guns. We did get to keep our 81mm mortars though! I have not had a chance to shoot the new Sig and am not sure I want to. I think I will wait to see what the forum members post on their experiences with them. I am sticking with my Glock 19 and 135 grain Hornady Critical LE rounds for now as well as several different .45acp’s.

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