looking at the thread below it is sort of depressing that
Gary Reeder
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 11:49 (2791 days ago)
not every gun person knows about Bill Grover. He was unique in his mirror image single actions. When he died the family lawyer (maybe the person that handled the estate) sent us a large box of parts and asked us to take care of putting together some guns that hadn't been finished. I have no idea who asked them to send the stuff to us. Unfortunately most of the parts they sent were used parts or parts that just didn't meet the specs required. We finished 3 or 4 guns and sent them out for the family, but unfortunately we couldn't do much for them.Here is one we finished up and the owner asked us to full engrave it. This is in the white, not stainless. If I had had a brain I would have taken pictures of the others.
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901131846355c3b878b02deb.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901131846525c3b879cd687f.jpg)
Gary, didn't you have a close copy of that gun?
Wayne Beleau
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 12:21 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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HERE IS GARY'S RENDITION
JT
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 14:14 (2791 days ago) @ Wayne Beleau
Grover book
okie
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 17:27 (2791 days ago) @ JT
Wasn't somebody in the process or did write a book about Bill Grover?
my time with Bill
james
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 18:29 (2791 days ago) @ okie
I was asked about the accuracy of the TLA single action I own which had me look into my records for the accuracy loads and targets for my Improved # 5 in 45 Colt. I also found some letters from the late Bill Grover, the owner of Texas longhorn arms, sent to me during the few years of our friendship.
I was able to locate 2 old targets, the first of which was dated 9/14/97 and shows 4 rounds inside one inch with the 5th making around 1 1/2". This load was a 300gr XTP over 20.5grs of H-110 at 25 yards and I remember being very pleased with the gun.The 2nd target dated 11/16/97 has 5 rounds inside an 1 1/2" at 25yds using a 250gr XTP over 19.0grs of AA #9.My gun preferred the 300 grainers and gave me all the accuracy I needed from a handgun of this type. However, it was the look, feel and quality of the gun that made me buy it. TLA`s Improved # 5 was Grover`s attempt , like the name say`s, to improve on Elmer Keiths famous custom # 5 single action.The gun has to be held in your hand`s to appreciate it`s quality.
I first met Bill when I was teamed with him during the 1996 SCI sponsered "Handgun Hunt for the Hungry" held in south Texas. He was a fine gentleman with a ton of knowledge who was fun to be around.When asked about the accuracy of TLA`s handguns I can only think back to that day at the YO Ranch, in 1996, when it was Bill`s turn for the next shot at a deer. Our guide pulled the Jeep over and pointed in the distance to a whitetail and asked Bill if he wanted to try and sneak up for a closer shot. That day Grover was using a recent addition to his line that he called his "express model" because of the folding 3-blade rear sight that`s similar to those found on a large bore double rifle. The gun was in .44 mag with a 5 1/2" barrel and was shooting Cor-Bon`s 300gr Swift A-frame load that was sighted dead on at 25 yards in his gun. Instead of following the guide for a closer shot, Bill got into the kneeling position , flipped up the 100 yard rear sight blade and cocked the gun as he sighted in on the distant whitetail. Later he would say that he held up a small bit of front sight over the 100yd blade as he aimed for the shoulder.
Everyone , including the deer, were staring at Bill thinking that this was an impossible shot when after what seemed like a full minute the gun went off....BOOM....As if struck by lighting the whitetail dropped to the ground never to move again. The distance??? A measured 158 yards....with the point of impact being his shoulder where he held the top of his front sight.Not only does this speak well of the accuracy of TLA`s handgun`s but of the shooting skills posessed by Bill Grover. Those southern boy`s sure can shoot....Before leaving the YO that year, I talked with Bill and said that the only way I would come back to hunt the YO , would be if he also returned which was the beginning of a long distance friendship that would last until the end of his life so few years later.
In the following year, the 1997 issue of Gun Digest had a review of TLA`s "express model" and included the story of this incredable shot. I sent Bill my copy of that issue of Gun Digest where he writes the following on page 123. "James, The verdict is in and you're a star witness, better yet you were an eye witness. Enjoyed hunting with you on the Y-O-Ranch. Bill Grover, Gun Maker, 11/10/97". As time went on I talked more and more with Bill by phone and letter, and with each new year I would ask him if he was going to hunt the YO and he would have one reason or another why he could not make it. We talked about many things including hunting trips taken in the past and what places we would like to hunt in the future. I remember telling him that he should consider writing a book on his life when I recieved a letter from him saying that I was the third person in so many day`s to tell him to put all of his experience on paper. He was referred to some english department people at the University of Texas who were going to make his book a reality. However, behind the scene`s his life was taking a turn for the worse. Through some legal moves he lost his beloved gun company which was then followed by him getting seriously sick.
It was around this time that I lost contact with Bill after calling his home in Texas and hearing that his number was no longer in service and a letter I sent to him was not answered. I did not know what had become of Bill Grover until I read of his death in an article by his friend John Taffin. Let me finish by saying that when I recieved my new Texas Longhorn Arm`s Improved # 5 in .45 Colt, you can imagine my surprise when I found the following words engraved on the backstrap of my single action: "Made for James F. Swidryk by Bill Grover-Inventor". Also enclosed in that package from UPS was one of his High Rider holster`s made for the # 5. On the plastic that held the holster was written one word in ink: "friend".He will be missed.![[image]](images/uploaded/201901140120575c3be3f9a67c8.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901140126475c3be5577ec08.jpg)
date
james
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 18:32 (2791 days ago) @ james
the 2nd target was dated 2/14/99... my mistake
That'd be me
Steve W
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 20:19 (2791 days ago) @ okie
The TLA book project got put on hold due to family concerns, but it is not dead. I hope to get back on track with it in the coming year. The last several years have been a bit of a wild ride for my family, but we seem to be settling into a semblance of normal, now.
Also, the process of writing a book turned out to be way more work than I originally envisioned. I was warned by a few people that would happen, including a couple here. They spoke from experience. :)
yes and no. They were similar to the original
Gary Reeder
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 14:41 (2791 days ago) @ Wayne Beleau
in looks but didn't have the left side loading gate. I had high hopes for the guns but they began to have small problems from day one. Some parts weren't quite right so I had to have them re-cast. I had Ruger's written permission to copy their old model completely and did so but the company that was supposed to make our old model parts went under which left us hanging. We had another company make us the same parts that Ruger used when they converted an old model to a new model but these weren't as strong or as reliable as the original old model parts. So we struggled along with what we could cobble up.
Diamond Dot ordered one for John Taffin's 66 birthday with the serial number MM66, for Mile Marker 66. With all the problems we had with parts not being the way I had drawn them up the order lagged along and finally got to him months late. During the weeks we were late I was hesitant to walk in front of a lighted window fearing that Dot would have crosshairs on me.
I had frames. gripframes and small parts cast for 100 guns. We finished a bit over 40 before I gave up a losing battle and put the remaining parts and such in a safe there in the shop, where they still sit today. I lost a lot of money on that deal but every loss is a gain in knowledge. So I guess I got real smart during that time period.
here are a couple of our #5s we did get finished and out.
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132041345c3ba27eafa12.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132051105c3ba4be7d4d3.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132052045c3ba4f4bce58.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132052345c3ba5127ea20.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132053035c3ba52fa09d9.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132053355c3ba54f308cf.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132054065c3ba56e337a5.jpg)
There were quite a few #5 revolvers made on the Ruger stainless frames. Here are a couple of them.Some were even done in all blue.
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132131405c3bae3ce5215.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132119275c3bab5f9596a.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132122465c3bac26693a6.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132124445c3bac9ca9cfd.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132110085c3ba930793d9.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132106055c3ba83d64bb6.jpg)
Even though I sometimes felt I was jousting at windmills, I decided to stick my neck out farther and came up with what we called the #6. This was a gun that if Keith was alive today, this is what he would have been shooting. I had plenty of the #5 gripframes, which became the #6 gripframe. The difference in the guns were the #6 guns were in larger calibers up to 510 GNR. These were different in that they were built on Ruger single action frames, so parts were no problem. We built probably 60 to 70 of them and then I had more of the #6 gripframes cast so they are still being made today. Here are some of the #6 revolvers.
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132113225c3ba9f205b24.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132108565c3ba8e87b2b7.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132114265c3baa3263143.jpg)
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132115535c3baa89ee442.jpg)
I have a lot more of the original #5 pics on my computer at the shop, but only a few here at home.
They sure are nice, eish it had all
Grover Sr
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 18:20 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
Worked out. I'd sure like to have a some of them if they were being made. It seems to me there are fewer of us who appreciate good handguns every year. Now if you could just come up with some sort of handgun hype equivalent to the 6.5 Creedmoor you'd be in the big time!
somebody wash his mouth out with soap
Gary Reeder
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 20:12 (2791 days ago) @ Grover Sr
He should be ashamed for even thinking that, much less saying it.
I'LL STAY WITH THE 6.5 SWEDE THANK YOU
JT
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Sunday, January 13, 2019, 21:49 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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Nicely done Gary. Wish you could build them.
SPB
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Sunday, January 13, 2019, 12:44 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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I WAS SORTA STUNNED THAT HE WASN'T KNOWN!
JT
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Sunday, January 13, 2019, 14:15 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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I count it a real honor to have been one of his friends.
Jim Taylor
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Sunday, January 13, 2019, 15:13 (2791 days ago) @ JT
It was a privilege to know him.
They are beautiful!
Andy S
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Sunday, January 13, 2019, 17:35 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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I think I have a picture of that gun blued somewhere
Steve W
[subject]
Sunday, January 13, 2019, 20:21 (2791 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
The owner of it sent me pics years ago. If I can find them, I'll post them.
![[image]](images/uploaded/201901132114155c3baa271f926.jpg)