I see the Pope has changed the wording of the Lord's Prayer

Gary Reeder
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Wednesday, June 05, 2019, 19:25 (2643 days ago)

As a preachers kid I read a lot of my

Larry Fry
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Wednesday, June 05, 2019, 19:46 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

father's books and course notes when he went to Seminary to become an Episcopal Priest. I found out that many of our translations were done in the middle ages by scholars with an agenda (much like our politicians today) and the translations went from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to French etc. etc. so the actual words used by Christ in his teaching of the Lords Prayer may have been totally mistranslated. The article I read said that the Pope was changing the wording to more closely follow the teaching of Christ that God would not tempt us but allow us to make our own decisions when tempted by the devil. I think that this change is an attempt to more closely follow the idea that God does not tempt us but the devil does and that we have free choice. I know that there is a tremendous library in the Vatican that contains writings that are supposed to go back to pre Christian times including the Dead Sea Scrolls (films of the actual documents which are in Israel I believe). No one knows for certain as the Vatican will not confirm or deny the existence of such a library. If it does indeed exist then perhaps someone has found a better translation of the original Armenian? In any case, I don't think I would lose sleep over it. God knows what is in your heart when you pray.

I agree with Larry on this, when I was in college

Amede
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Wednesday, June 05, 2019, 20:21 (2643 days ago) @ Larry Fry

a good friend of mine(still is) translated a lot of the old testament and the dead sea scrolls for masters work. And the interpretation was based on what they 'thought' was the meaning. We are talking about 2 millennia old scriptures handed down and you have to take into account the times and what might have been the meaning at that time. Many times over the ages the bible has been changed due to how someone thought it should read due to current leanings. We still have discussions on it time to time when he isn't teaching ancient Greek or Latin. But like Larry says, you know what it is in your heart, follow it. It will never let you down.

The N.T was originally in Greek and translated to

Sean Harper
[subject]
Thursday, June 06, 2019, 06:23 (2643 days ago) @ Amede

German , English etc.... The O.T was in Hebrew and translated to everything.
The Dead Sea Scroll are just O.T manuscripts , Isaiah,Jeremiah etc... that were found in a cave in 1947 est,The Isaiah scroll was read and found to be 98% accurate to our present day bible.
Be carefull in thinking the bible is not accurate, that is a way of making an excuse for not following the LORD.

Sean

Amen Sean

Derek
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 06:40 (2643 days ago) @ Sean Harper

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But Deuteronomy 4:2 explains it perfectly...

Huey
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 09:18 (2643 days ago) @ Sean Harper

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In the Lutheran church

PJ
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Wednesday, June 05, 2019, 20:02 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

there's a running joke that what we all read is commentary on the Bible.

I think the new wording fits more accurately with how I've always taken the meaning of the passage.

I normally won't post on these threads...

Huey
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 03:44 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

It just causes me grief in the long run. But, this has gone on forever.

I've gotten to where I have little faith in churches of organized religion. Mostly because of the people who "organize" them.

Ditto on the "Church" base charities. Most skim most off the top for "Expenses." Staying in motels that costs $1k or more a night, driving cars that cost six digits and meals that cost like the Obamas. They claim it's because they are blessed.

I've realized in my old age that if you see who benefits thru the changes, you'll see who makes these changes.

My faith in God is strong. My charity is given directly to whom God reveals needs it to me. Works just fine for me and the people who need help get it.

Just my opinion...

PTL

Sid R
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 06:50 (2643 days ago) @ Huey

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Well said.

DinCA
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 07:08 (2643 days ago) @ Huey

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I agree. Years ago Jim Taylor sent me a new years

Gary Reeder
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 10:49 (2643 days ago) @ Huey

recommendation. I have kept it on the wall in front of my engraving bench for years now, changing it every year. The main thing that I get out of it and that Jim recommends is stay away from religion. I stay away from churches and from those constantly spouting chapter and verse also mainly because of the things Huey mentioned. We have 3 or 4 churches in this plaza where my shops are and just watching them reminds me to pay attention to what Jim said. And like Huey said the ministers drive very expensive cars or trucks and so on. So I just try to stay with what Jim listed in his e-mail to me.
[image]

I too, agree. Have never seen Jim’s letter to Gary,

Larryh
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 11:30 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

But it is a very good one that I have pretty much abided by for the last few years. Drives my wife crazy that I won’t bow down to her and attend the many churches that she has tried to find a “spiritual home”! I guess I’ve found mine and am happy to see Jim Taylor’s letter/guide to Gary. Thanks for sharing Gary!

It's nice to know I am not alone in my thinking.

Sid R
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 12:16 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Thanks for posting that letter.

In the prayer of Matt 6, the original says literally

Lynn
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 09:06 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

" to bring to, to lead." Jesus was led into the wilderness to be tempted. (Matt 4.1) If Jesus could be we can too. Ps 23 speaks of green grass and the valley of the shadow of death, of being in the presence of your enemies. Ps 23 is all about all of our life. You will find your self there. The point of the Ps23 is if you follow the shepherd you will follow him through many different times, to the Father's' house. One of those times if life is temptation.
Now back to the Lord's prayer of Matt 6.
. All Jesus is doing is giving us permission to ask to not be lead to a place to be tempted. We can ask but sometimes the answer is NO and in we must go.
Pope can only try to change a translation, He can not change the truth. "..lead us not into temptation.." will still be here long after the Pope is gone

James 1:13

Jim Taylor
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:33 (2643 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

I w]as taught that the Bible should interpret the Bible. Here is a verse that applies to the question.


James 1:13 in various translations:


When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; New International Version


Don't let anyone under pressure to give in to evil say, "God is trying to trip me up." God is impervious to evil, and puts evil in no one's way. The Message

When you are tempted don’t ever say, “God is tempting me,” for God is incapable of being tempted by evil and he is never the source of temptation. The Passion Translation

Agreed and God is Omnipresent, whereas Satan isn't...

Huey
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Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:38 (2643 days ago) @ Jim Taylor

It's my belief that is why temptation passes. God is always with us, but we have to hold on to him...

Yes ... And ..

Jim Taylor
[subject]
Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:46 (2643 days ago) @ Huey

He has hold of us also. And I am so glad. Because I have let go many times but He never did.

The best quote I ever read was by Max Lucado...

Huey
[subject]
Thursday, June 06, 2019, 14:51 (2643 days ago) @ Jim Taylor

He said the thing he was always 100% certain of was that God never let's us down, but people always do. I've never seen a case that was an exception to that. It stings a little because we are included in that as "people." So, we let others down too...

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