Big Bad Leroy Brown, the .450 GNR.

WB
[subject]
Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 18:59 (2629 days ago)

Been thinking about that .450 GNR at max. performance envelope. My .458 Win. RIFLE shooting always ended in a little disappointment and short of published ballistics with jacketed 500 gr. There was just not enough capacity for powder slow enough to give me the velocity I wanted. Usually was just under 2000 fps. It still was powerful and kicked the literal snot out of me. The 10 lb. M77RS Tropical was better to shoot than the 9 lb. No. 1. Cast bullets were a little lighter than the mould indicated and happily sailed out at 2100 fps. That was from a 24” barrel.

The 13”+brake Encore pistol barrel will be really hard pressed to burn powders. I think along the lines of IMR 3031 or H322 will be the most potent at the 60 or so grs. capacity under a long bullet. If you equaled the .458 published ballistics at 2,150 and deducted say 40 fps per inch, that garners you around 1700-1800 fps with a 500 gr. Bullet. Personally I can’t handle that from a 6 lb., scoped handgun. My limit is a 400 gr. at 1800-1900 fps. Ballistically about equal to a short barreled .416 Rigby. It hurts. That .458/500/1800 fps is EXPERT levels and still ballistically the same as a .450 Nitro or .458 Win. rifle at 150 yds. I think a more realistic (for an over the top) goal. My goodness, what would it NOT shoot through? Personally I’d be a bit inclined to back off on bullet weight to a modern homogenous alloy flat tip bullet and get to my 1900 fps and be happy as a clam. There reaches a point that I physically just can’t handle it any more. I have to stay under that or I’m no good, especially under pressure.

This is a link to some really neat “modern” real fancy bullets that are specialty designed to perform in a certain manner, not a gimmick, for a special use. The HP is designed to stick a pointy polymer tip in to aid flat trajectories. A couple bucks each is not a big thing when tens of thousands are on the line AND maybe your life! If I lived in a place where you could not use lead I’d work up a bad boy load for that 258 gr. at around 2200-2300 fps and not worry about anything this side of something as big as a house. The 450 gr. looks like a contender for shooting houses, even the lighter ones look really useful. There are many others from other makers out there too. Got to make your own choices, so there are no wrong ones.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets/rifle-bullets?caliber=66

my 450 GNR with the new Hornady DGX

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 19:51 (2629 days ago) @ WB

(Dangerous Game Expanding) hit my Cape last year just above point of shoulder and he hit the ground. He was still alive so i put another one in him. By my ballistic chart ( I was using Larry Kovach's data that he got chronoing his 450 GNR loads for his Cape Buff hunt) that 500 grain bullet was going right at 2000 fps, which was a handful. In fact after 4 rounds my hand was shaking a bit (a lot). For next year's hunt I hope to be able to get that 500 grain DGS (Dangerous Game Solid) up to as close to 2200 as I can handle. That might not happen, but we'll see.

In the pic below the buff was facing John and me and he wasn't a happy camper. He was pawing the ground and blowing snot thru his nose, which was his way of telling us to get the hell out of his back yard. John told me to hold off a bit as he was just giving us a false charge. He said to wait and when the bull turned his head to his right so the horns weren't in the line of fire, to put one in his shoulder. I did what he said and the buffalo staggered more toward us and dropped to his knees but was trying to get back up. John walked me over to other side of him and that was when I put the second finishing shot in him.

The bullet hole is visible just above his point of shoulder. I was aiming for the point of shoulder but it was an offhand shot and I am sure I pulled it a bit. He was about 40 yards from me angling a bit to his right (my left). The second bullet hole is in the low neck/upper shoulder on the other side. All in all it was 2 lucky shots and a lucky situation as everything fell into place a lot better than I had expected. But if you ever need a great bullet dangerous game, check out Steve Hornady's DGS or DGX. In my humble opinion you can't beat them. And I know WB will want to know the price but I have no idea. When I need a good bullet I never look at the price.
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a view I like of the horns

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 20:14 (2629 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Massive! What a Trophy.

WB
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 06:42 (2628 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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just wait til we see Colleen's Cape Buffalo mounted

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 16:56 (2628 days ago) @ WB

my gut feeling is it will make mine look like a farmer's goat.
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And mine..
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I will have to give her credit though as she shot it offhand standing on her hind legs at about 60 yards and dropped him with one shot. She used the 458 American rifle I built for her first trip to Africa in '93. Ebony stock with elephant ivory forend tip and grip cap.
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Next to Kase's 416 Rigby that we built for him on that same hunt. I think WB now owns that rifle.
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Recently I jokingly asked a taxidermist what a full mount elephant would cost me. He immediately told me $165,000. Apparently he had done a few before. The last Safari Club Convention I went to I saw 5 or 6 full mount elephant on display.

A good friend in Florida who hunted all over with me, shot a big elephant in '92 on our safari over there and as he was always wanting to show off his bank account he told them he wanted it full mounted. Just before our '93 Africa hunt they called him that it was to be delivered that day and he asked me to meet him at his house to show off his full mounted elephant. The flat bed truck was there when I got there and my friend was having his ass chewed out royally by his wife. It seemed he didn't take into account how tall this creature was, something like 10 feet at the shoulder, he had the typical Florida home, concrete block outside with an 8 foot ceiling. For some idiotic reason he thought they could bring it in thru his garage door that was converted to his trophy room and then stand it up.

Anyway the trucking company had to take it back up to Tampa to put it in storage while my friend had his whole garage roof listed off and the room converted to a 14 foot ceiling and the front garage door opening changed to a much higher opening. Needless to say his wife was slightly pissed, until he told her while the house reworking was going on she could decorate the whole house with new carpet and wall coverings however she liked. At the time the elephant cost him about $55,000 and the mount cost him $95,000 and the house revamping about the same.

Another friend whose Dad owned a sports car dealership in Nashville wanted a 90 to 100 pound elephant. They were still available at the time if you looked long and hard enough. He had been a friend for years as another of his Dad's businesses was a miniature golf course just outside Nashville that I took some girl friends to. So he was a good friend and I had bought a couple of sports cars from them too.

A few years later he told me he went on safari 12 times before he got his elephant. The daily rate back in the mid 70s was $900 a day and the safari was 31 days so he paid $27,900 each year for 12 hunts just in daily rates. That works out to over $330,000, not counting the cost of the elephant and all the extras like charter flights and such. If I remember right he told me he spent around $65,000 per hunt for 12 hunts. He got his 95 lb elephant on trip #12. So he had over $300,000 in just the daily rates plus all the other stuff and I think he told me he had almost $800,000 in his elephant and knowing him he probably had it full mounted. And he wasn't one to BS me to show off. When I met him he was sweeping up the Miniature golf course and picking up trash that people had left there. Sort of a no brag kind of guy.

I'll bet yours weighs more, incredible mass

Rsim
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 20:03 (2628 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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Hornady 375 H&H DGX and Nancy's Buff

Jim & Nancy Frost
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 08:42 (2628 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

At Gary's suggestion, Nancy used Hornady 300gr DGX factory loads in her 375H&H for her buffalo on this years hunt. Preformed perfectly, he never moved after the first shot but she took another to knock him over.

Massive

Rsim
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 16:38 (2628 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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Scotty don’t over look 4198.

Blake
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 09:48 (2628 days ago) @ WB

I had a 450 Alaskan in a Winchester mod71. 18” barrel was getting 2200fps
With 400gr bullets and IMR 4198. I use H4198 for all my 476GNR loads now.

I'm about out of 4895 so I'll see if they have any local!

WB
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 14:26 (2628 days ago) @ Blake

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Interesting to see where we are operating....

WB
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 14:32 (2628 days ago) @ WB

In relation to burn rates. I have used H322 and H335, IMR4064. Puffy liked 3031 in the .416 I know. I like the 4895 in the .378 GNR and it works in the big case rounds too. Lots of good powders that can be used and experimented in that mid-range swath. I have some Reloader 15 but it may be too slow/bulky, at the far end of burn rates for handguns.

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf

that list is why I stick with what I know best

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 14:47 (2628 days ago) @ WB

look at #34. What the hell is that? Does that name inspire you to try it in your handgun?

LOL, never seen it before. Betwixt Unique/Herco. I got that.

WB
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 15:02 (2628 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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just talked to a friend from Hodgdon. The Unequal was

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, June 20, 2019, 15:31 (2628 days ago) @ WB

dropped due to not being consistent in burn rate. He said it was out for a couple of years before it was dropped.

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